Interesting question. The ACS has the cultivar listed as an 'Intermediate', which means as much as 15' in 10 years, so they well could be 'Fastigata'. But I would guess that the cultivar came from a seedling selection, so maybe this is not rare. Mine is maybe 8' tall and provides a nice structural contrast to P.p. 'Fat Albert', which pretty much has the opposite form!

Fastigiate ?? the branch system are not upright, look more columnare and little pendulous.

I think 'Fastigata' refers to the overall shape of the tree, no?

upright branches....Iseli has pungens 'Fastigata'

ron

I agree with Clément. That's not fastigiate branching. It's just a narrow upright form, probably an unnamed seedling.

The NUF variant. Nice one in Iowa City. Will try to get a picture this weekend. I like this form better than the typical pungens

I have seen many cultivated examples with this same general structure. There is also what appears to be a clonal Blue Colorado Spruce present in my area that produces unusually short, yet level branches to form a dense spire. I've never heard or seen a cultivar name for it, that I recognized as being applicable.

Here is Iseli's color photo illustrated page on their 'Iseli Fastigiate'. Notice also the list of links on the right side of the page to photos and descriptions of the multiple other Colorado Spruce cultivars they have on their web site at this time.

http://www.iselinursery.com/colorful-conifers/picea-spruce/picea-pungens/picea-pungens-iseli-fastigiate/

Interesting discussion as I guess I never realized how specifically fastigate branching was arranged. I thought that the term referred to the shape of the tree. I guess that term would correctly be 'columnar', is that right? So a tree could be both columnar and fastigate or just columnar. Can it be fastigate and not columnar?

fastigiate refers to upward-facing branch terminals. I suppose it possible for a tree to be broadly fastigiate. Think of it as the opposite of strictly weeping (downward-facing terminals).

I would like you to consider Picea abies 'Claudine' for a moment. I would describe its structure as extremely narrow, irregular upright form. It is certainly not fastigiate.

On the other hand, now consider this Araucaria laubenfelsii. This is what I meant by broadly fastigiate form.

Thx, got it. So those Acers like 'Monumentale' are all columnar, not fastigate.

If the branches of a particular kind are not closely up-swept then, yes, it is not fastigiate.

If you are talking about the unusually skinny maple with stubby lateral branches that one is correctly 'Newton Sentry', discovered in Newton, MA before 1871 and transplanted to Newton Cemetery by 1885. Introduced to the nursery trade soon after as 'Columnare', this designation doesn't work because the same name has also been used for two other Sugar Maples. The clarifying replacement 'Newton Sentry' was first proposed in 1954.

This was the one I was thinking of but I think that there are a bunch of them with similar shape.

Acer s. 'Monumentale'

Unless one of the newer, quite recent introductions is replicating it - and I have seen none so far that do - there is just the one tall, really narrow beanpole. And it is 'Newton Sentry'. There is a history of nurseries selling it as 'Monumentale', with synonyms of 'Newton Sentry' including 'Columnare', 'Erectum', 'Sentry' (in part) and 'Monumentale' hort., non Temple.

You'll have to take that up with Talon! I have no idea other than that they sell this as 'Monumentale'. I don't know its provenance.

This tree and other upright forms are known to have been confused in nurseries and the literature for years. This is why the name 'Newton Sentry' was put forward back in 1954.

Buchholz doesn't have the right names on everything, they used to supply 'Prinz Handjery' Sycamore Maple as 'Brilliantissimum' for instance. Anywhere a collection of some size is being assembled if those doing the assembling haven't checked every item for correctness then various plants can be grown (and sold, when there is a nursery involved) under the wrong names indefinitely. Successful resolution of nursery stock naming issues is based on things like morphology and taxonomic histories, and not cults of personality. "It came from so and so or that is what so and so is calling it" is not really of much use in arriving at an accurate determination. Unless so and so is the originator, and even then stocks can get mixed up in production or other problems can occur.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I agree that it might well not be what they are calling it, but that's where my knowledge ends. I make no judgments about personalities. Don't mistake ignorance for willful misunderstanding.

What the heck was my question? So forgetful. Oh yeah, my curiosity had to do with this apparent genetic trait for slimness. It seems somewhat common to me, and I'm wondering if others have recognized it

KG, can you explain the NUF variant? Can't say I'm familiar with that.

I have wondered about these 'variants' as well. I have seen many like this in my area. Here is one in particular. Not the greatest pic, but you should be able to make out the narrow form on this mature Picea pungens.

I just made it up. LOL. Narrow Upright Form variant. Too rainy in Iowa City today to snap photo of local one I saw. Maybe tomorrow

keith

Too bad they limbed up that last one.

I love those freaky tall and skinny blue spruces, whatever they may be. I dont see them often, but when I do I take notice for sure.