Tsuga Canadensis study group

[Frozentreehugger]

Simply put . Tsuga Canadensis eastern hemlock . Has several Bnuts actively cultivating these trees . Considering the unique . Attributes both good and bad . Of the species . I felt we collectively should have a thread dedicated . To these trees . Several people have progression threads on there trees . By all means continue them . You are of course welcome to move them here if you wish . There is also B nuts that grow the 2 western tsuga . And Carolina hemlock . There is also densflora ( Japanese hemlock . All are welcome but the primary reason for the thread is the cultivation of the 2 eastern varieties. Any aspect of these trees . Cultivation victories and failures . Is welcome . The collective advancement of our knowledge of the species . As it pertains to there use as bonsai . Is the only goal . Participate with anything you like

 

[zero]

I’d love to learn more about Tsuga canadensis and caroliniana are some of my favorite trees. Even if there were links to other threads here as well folks could drop that’d be great.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I’ll start us off . My love hate relationship . With these trees goes back to losing a large collected one after 5 years . That failure had a hand in my quitting bonsai for 10 years . I have restarted . It is often difficult to find good trees in the wild . Worth collecting . It has been my experience . That some pre trimming and prep in the field can be beneficial. With that in mind I have several . In the woods around my cottage . Trimmed back and fertilizer added ( conifer tree spikes ) have hopes for several . One is growing out of a rotted tree fallen in a drying up former beaver pond ( abandoned by the beavers ). 2 others trimmed back near a opening in the forest . Created by a storm felled tree opening up the canopy . I have several purchased last year from nurseries . 3 young 3 gallon pot ones . From a reforestation nursery nearby . Simple common cultivar . About 3 years old I think . I have 2 one gallon and 1 3 gallon dwarf cultivar . Coles prostrate it’s a fairly unique smooth grey bark . Very prostrate leader version with almost weeping foliage . Meant as a low garden bush . I also have 1 ( plan to get more ) Betty rose cultivar . In a 1 quart container . It is arguable the slowest growing version out there a true dwarf . But it has impossible to resist tight ramified small foliage . All were purchased to late for repoting last early summer .

 

[Underdog]

I'm in. I have a couple and a field full I want to sort thru and collect more. I killed an amazing wild one hanging off a cliff in my first year of dumazz and still regret it. Trying to redeem myself.

Lots of good things about these tree including their healing ability.

Here is my thread when I collected a couple 2 yrs ago.

5yr native tree challenge - Tsuga canadensis, aka eastern hemlock

Dug 3/3/2021 put one in the ground and one in a box.

www.bonsainut.com

I know @MrFancyPlants will enjoy this thread.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I'm in. I have a couple and a field full I want to sort thru and collect more. I killed an amazing wild one hanging off a cliff in my first year of dumazz and still regret it. Trying to redeem myself.

Lots of good things about these tree including their healing ability.

Here is my thread when I collected a couple 2 yrs ago.

5yr native tree challenge - Tsuga canadensis, aka eastern hemlock

Dug 3/3/2021 put one in the ground and one in a box.

www.bonsainut.com

I know @MrFancyPlants will enjoy this thread.

Well that’s one way to dig a big tree . I need one of those excavators. . . Glad your here . You have some great material . Can you think of anything you did . To help the bud backing on old wood . That you achieved . Ie feeding . Light . Etc . What’s the deal on the field full of them .

 

[MrFancyPlants]

A

I'm in. I have a couple and a field full I want to sort thru and collect more. I killed an amazing wild one hanging off a cliff in my first year of dumazz and still regret it. Trying to redeem myself.

Lots of good things about these tree including their healing ability.

Here is my thread when I collected a couple 2 yrs ago.

5yr native tree challenge - Tsuga canadensis, aka eastern hemlock

Dug 3/3/2021 put one in the ground and one in a box.

www.bonsainut.com

I know @MrFancyPlants will enjoy this thread.

Yup love the thread, and posting about my Tsuga. I’ll link to my threads in follow up posts and give you my quick rundown on Tsuga care.
They can be quite vigorous, if wild type (not dwarf varieties), given ample sun and fertilizer. They are highly shade tolerant, but prefer the sun when healthy. I use a “Boon-ish” mix of thirds pumice, akadama and lava or scoria but supplemented with 5-10% organics (mix of long grain spaghnum and vermi-compost).
I try to repot in the Spring, right before the buds start to move, but I have done late Spring repots too. I wouldn’t rule out a Fall repot, as they seem to be very cold tolerant, but also, why mess with success?
I’ve been using Agriform fertilizer tablets (20-10-5 or something?). These and JBP just seem to eat them up. Watch the wire in the Spring as it cuts in quick and deep if not careful. Supposedly they graft quite well. My air layer failed.
My training plan has gravitated towards (unsuccessfully) trying to lay off pruning during the growing season, and cutting back hard and styling in the winter. It is hard not to do some cutbacks during the growing season, but I think best for backbuds, to let them shoot. I haven’t approached refinement yet, but I have one little crossing branch that I have kept in check on my collected one, and I know you could develop finer twiging if your goal wasn’t backbuds.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

A

Yup love the thread, and posting about my Tsuga. I’ll link to my threads in follow up posts and give you my quick rundown on Tsuga care.
They can be quite vigorous, if wild type (not dwarf varieties), given ample sun and fertilizer. They are highly shade tolerant, but prefer the sun when healthy. I use a “Boon-ish” mix of thirds pumice, akadama and lava or scoria but supplemented with 5-10% organics (mix of long grain spaghnum and vermi-compost).
I try to repot in the Spring, right before the buds start to move, but I have done late Spring repots too. I wouldn’t rule out a Fall repot, as they seem to be very cold tolerant, but also, why mess with success?
I’ve been using Agriform fertilizer tablets (20-10-5 or something?). These and JBP just seem to eat them up. Watch the wire in the Spring as it cuts in quick and deep if not careful. Supposedly they graft quite well. My air layer failed.
My training plan has gravitated towards (unsuccessfully) trying to lay off pruning during the growing season, and cutting back hard and styling in the winter. It is hard not to do some cutbacks during the growing season, but I think best for backbuds, to let them shoot. I haven’t approached refinement yet, but I have one little crossing branch that I have kept in check on my collected one, and I know you could develop finer twiging if your goal wasn’t backbuds.

Was wondering how long before you showed up glad you’re here . Your trees look great . Especially. The root ball pic. . The 2 biggest trimming methods that I know are allow healthy growth . Then trim it back to get back budding . That can mean trimming in mid summer if there vigorous. Refinement trimming . Allow the first shoots to just come out and remove 100 percent . Forcing a second flush and work with that

 

[Underdog]

Can you think of anything you did . To help the bud backing on old wood . That you achieved

I've not had it long enough. First year left untouched and pruned second year in July and had a second flush. It still has a lot of field soil in the root ball holding it back. I didn't get enough roots at collection. That big digger tool is not to accurate. Next year digging by hand initially.

What’s the deal on the field full of them .

My friend has a landscape biz and a ton of motorcycles I work on all the time. We trade work. He dug my pond and did my patio. I really want to "dig in" to his stash of Hemlock next year.

 

[Peconomou]

I dug out one eastern hemlock a couple of years back for a garden tree within my bonsai development garden. This pick is from 2 yrs ago after I collected it and put it in a somewhat shallow Tractor Supply livestock water bowl. It must have a little age. It was in all shad in the woods.

 

[Underdog]

They say they won't bud on old wood... I'm going to step up my game with hemlock. New favorite...

 

[MrFancyPlants]

They say they won't bud on old wood... I'm going to step up my game with hemlock. New favorite...

To clarify, are you refuting the “won’t bud on old wood?”

In my experience they will occasionally throw a bud on 1-2 year old wood. But, they do seem to be pretty good at preserving small branches low down on the trunk. Maybe an artifact of slowing down w high shade tolerance?

I have 7 smaller subjects that I will probably repot cut back and deal with the roots this Spring. But in future years I want to experiment with thread and approach grafts on them. Some well placed grafts could save a lot of effort and time around trying to coax back-buds. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/t...rsery-of-landscaping-stock.57404/#post-994461

 

[Underdog]

To clarify, are you refuting the “won’t bud on old wood?”

Questioning it. These trees are 25-30yrs old and I doubt these lil sprouts are 20yr olds. But, I dunno, I'm learning them and why we are here. I'm going to crawl thru the fields one day soon.

 

[Japonicus]

I forget the names, but I ordered 2 nice true dwarf hemlocks.
To my surprise and dismay, they removed the pots before shipping them in plastic bags around the
rich black soil. The soil and roots were pretty loose and I simply removed the bags keeping all intact
as possible and put into the ground.
Lost them both. I forget the time of year, but seems Fall-ish was when I received them.

I have 4 or 5 others that were handled much better, and 2 of these in pond baskets
are really liking their environment which includes a semi shady spot beside my conifer bench
that gets mostly full Sun. I have a seedling a bird or squirrel planted in a large grow box
for a JM that died. It also loves the generally conifer mix + one part bark like the others.
The rest are nursery stock transplants.

Older tsuga need slower change of soil than their younger counterparts from what I understand.
Everything's in Winter shelter, so I don't have any current pics today.
All my tsuga are on the younger side, no sizable trunks in my collection.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Questioning it. These trees are 25-30yrs old and I doubt these lil sprouts are 20yr olds. But, I dunno, I'm learning them and why we are here. I'm going to crawl thru the fields one day soon.

If you don’t mind my 2 cents worth . Your in the ground one . Considering you have access to a field of them . Plus have to think out side the box . They have drawbacks but . Heal wounds better than any conifer . We need to take advantage of there strengths . Get it healthy and then the saw . multiple possibilities after the cut essentially nice trunk aged bark grow a tree on top of that

 

[Japonicus]

Being the "study group" that it is,
and seeing how cut backs or pruning is carried out during the growing season
and an example of Winter pruning from @MrFancyPlants...
...when is best to carry out pruning on dwarf varieties as well as those that aren't dwarf?
I'm thinking about an overgrown dwarf, that has never been styled and maybe 5-7 yrs old.
Probably shohin, or not much bigger.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Questioning it. These trees are 25-30yrs old and I doubt these lil sprouts are 20yr olds. But, I dunno, I'm learning them and why we are here. I'm going to crawl thru the fields one day soon.

Sharpened shovel . Or battery reciprocating saw circle around the trees . Straight down . Slight excavation around the trunk if you want or not add fertilizer near trunk . If you have access water then pretty easy with container and drip emitters . Gravity feed then collect one year latter

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Being the "study group" that it is,
and seeing how cut backs or pruning is carried out during the growing season
and an example of Winter pruning from @MrFancyPlants...
...when is best to carry out pruning on dwarf varieties as well as those that aren't dwarf?
I'm thinking about an overgrown dwarf, that has never been styled and maybe 5-7 yrs old.
Probably shohin, or not much bigger.

Goals . Winter is good if it’s overgrown back sure it’s healthy and chop it back to allow light in and see what budding you get . Degree of drastic depends on health and bravery . If not sure just got it . ( they sometimes sulk when in new place ) trim it lighter to allow light in at least

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Stuff. First pic is dwarf cultivars . Coles prostrate i think . On left ( was not marked just dwarf ) right is Betty rose . One is going on the rock in spring . Second is 3 gallon coles prostrate Next is stuff in the woods trimmed back last spring . Second pic don’t look like much but I have hope . There is actually 2 trees . Seeded in a rotten stump and a nearby large tree down in a storm . The week before I trimmed them . Third is in middle of drying up beaver pond again on a stump . Not as rotten but in good light . Last is 2 gallon regular reforestation tree with the 2 dwarfs

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Being the "study group" that it is,
and seeing how cut backs or pruning is carried out during the growing season
and an example of Winter pruning from @MrFancyPlants...
...when is best to carry out pruning on dwarf varieties as well as those that aren't dwarf?
I'm thinking about an overgrown dwarf, that has never been styled and maybe 5-7 yrs old.
Probably shohin, or not much bigger.

I would think winter pruning would be fine for a dwarf, but if you are doubtful of the vigor and response, you could also take a phased approach.
Clear out the top now to let some light in, but perhaps retaining a sacrifice to help drive the recovery. When you see new growth apear on cut areas from the top, you can clean out the mid section. By the fall you can chase back the lowest branches. And next winter remove branches that you realize won’t fit with the design.
Just an idea for a measured approach. I will clarify that while I strive for winter pruning only, I haven’t successfully abstained from any summer/fall pruning. Last year after the repot of the collected one, I did some phased pruning. Similar to described above.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Stuff. First pic is dwarf cultivars . Coles prostrate i think . On left ( was not marked just dwarf ) right is Betty rose . One is going on the rock in spring . Second is 3 gallon coles prostrate Next is stuff in the woods trimmed back last spring . Second pic don’t look like much but I have hope . There is actually 2 trees . Seeded in a rotten stump and a nearby large tree down in a storm . The week before I trimmed them . Third is in middle of drying up beaver pond again on a stump . Not as rotten but in good light . Last is 2 gallon regular reforestation tree with the 2 dwarfs

I’d love to see the thick wild ones collected, recovered and then with some self grafting in the right places. Are any of them collectible? The beaver dam one might have some fine rootage close to the trunk? So as not to have drowned?